There is also a version of Nissan Nismo coupe that can make 350 horsepower. While there’s no denying that the Aprilia RSV4 is easily one of… It is a measurement of how strong you are relative to your body weight. Hyundai Elantra Sports has many improvements as well as fixes the previous so-so design. (A 150-pound rider with a threshold of 200 would have a power-to-weight ratio of 2.9.) The vehicle also features the upgraded infotainment system with an improved touchscreen equipped with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Power meters have steadily been growing in … Mercedes GLA 45 is an all-wheel-drive 4matic car. Here the Vehicle power is 234 hp and Vehicle weight is 15000 pound. Focus RT is a compact car that you can handle well and bring to uptown. 2020 Chevy Corvette C8 - $59,995. It is suitable for you who are searching for a vehicle that brings individual styling with excellent handling. It is an excellent choice for those who admire high performances. This is because the 90kg rider is holding 3.3 W/kg whilst the 70kg rideris pushing out 3.85 W/kg and a higher power-to-weight ratio corresponds to a greater speed, particularly uphill. If both cyclists weigh 80kg, A will still be faster. Because it is related to car acceleration. We’ve seen that increasing power, reducing bodyweight or a combination of both can significantly improve your power-to-weight ratio. For your information, the Power to Weight Ratio also has effects on fuel consumption. The ride of Hyundai Elantra Sports is better than the last Elantra. Cycling is a dynamic activity, and the amount of work being done by your muscles varies throughout a ride. The flatter the terrain, the more important absolute power becomes. However, absolute power is still important. Now suppose this 90kg rider wants an improved power-to-weight ratio. Putting in more miles will not only boost your level of aerobic fitness (i.e. The same is true of cyclists who lose weight but suffer a drop-off in maximum power — something we’ll return to. The figures now become: The rate of ascent overall is still the same and the 70kg rider still requires around 32W less power than the 80kg rider to maintain a speed of 32kph. The basic engine of the Dodge Charger R/T is a responsive 3.6-liter V6, producing 292 horsepower. For reference, a Lotus Elise is lightweight, at 1927 pounds, with a relatively small 189 horsepower. To do this, you’ll need to use a bike with a reliable power meter fitted (SRM, Powertap, etc) or better still, a stationary bike with accurate power metering (e.g. 8 Best Van for Camper Conversion Ideas Less Budget, 5 Best Toyota with 7 Passenger SUV: TOP 3-Row Seating Crossover 2020, 7 Best 6 Passenger SUVs 2020 – Best Value Crossover. The car has the strength of a muscle car combined with the moves of a sports car. To work out your power-to-weight ratio figure, simply divide your maximum power output (in watts) by your body mass in kilograms (kg). The Mustang also introduces a turbocharged four-cylinder as an addition to the V8 and V6 engines. Better Power to Weight Ratio will help the car’s engine to be able to release its Power optimally. The fundamental idea of this type of car... Best Small Luxury SUV 2020 – Top 5 Future SUV! A car with a high power to weight ratio will accelerate faster than a automobile with a lower value. An aircraft with a high thrust to weight ratio has high acceleration. But if A weighs 80kg and B weighs 68kg, cyclist A’s power-to-weight ratio is 3.13W/kg, while B’s is 3.31W/kg. While improving your aerobic fitness can increase the amount of power your muscles can produce, human physiology means there’s a limit to the gains that can be achieved this way. Calculating your own power-to-weight ratio requires only two measurements: your weight and your maximum sustainable power output. For example, if you drop from 86 to 82kg and increase your 20-minute power output from 210 to 235W, your power-to-weight ratio increases from 2.4W/kg to a very respectable 2.9W/kg. Andrew Hamilton explains just why power-to-weight is important and how you can improve yours. Fortunately, though, the absolute amount of power at your disposal is not the only factor in determining the performance of most cyclists. Average club cyclists generally have 5-minute power to weight ratios of 4 W/kg or more, and have a ratio of approximately 3.5 W/kg at their Functional Threshold Power . Its ratio is about 10.2 lb/hp. It can produce 146 pound-feet of torque and 160 horsepower. They will be able to know where their kids go and how fast they go. Among athletic circles, it's generally believed that the ideal power-to-weight ratio is about 3 watts per pound [source: Kessler]. For many, this could be seen as a controversial entry. all other factors being equal a CD difference of .01 will make 3 mph difference top end. your sustainable power output); you’ll almost certainly lose a bit of excess body fat in the process. When it comes to car’s engine performances, it isn’t only measured with Power and torque. It is not that quick but fast enough. See the events here. Maybe 5 pounds per horsepower if we really need to put a cap on it. As we saw earlier, shifting mass uphill means that you have to work against the force of gravity. The first is easy to measure — just hop on some accurate bathroom scales. This post should answer some of those questions based on data from thousands of people who have used Cycling Analytics. And the last is 6.2-liter V8 that can make 455 pound-feet of torque and 455 horsepower. The respective power to weight ratios of the two riders would give us a good idea to what might happen. This is why cyclists sometimes get obsessed with buying lighter cycling equipment. The Power to weight ratio of this car is 0.1134. F/W is the thrust to weight ratio and it is directly proportional to the acceleration of the aircraft. The Power to weight ratio of this Japanese sporty cabriolet is 126.0 W/kg. In simple terms, although much of the riders’ power requirements are a function of body mass (because they’re climbing), there’s an extra, fixed amount of work that has to be done to push the air out of the way (i.e. Formula 1 drivers are probably the biggest power-to-weight ratio junkies of anyone because the typical power-to-weight ratio of a standard Formula 1 car is around four hundred and twenty-two watts per pound. SUVs with the best Power to Weight Ratio Compare the Power to Weight Ratio of various SUVs. It is combined with a 6-speed manual transmission or 5-speed Mercedes-Benz automatic. Power to weight ratios vary enormously from amateur cyclists to the pros. CLICK>This is Irish Road Racing>> Cycling training plans: get fitter, ride faster and go further. This is because of their ability to operate at very high speeds. This underlines why shedding excess body mass (fat) is so effective at boosting performance — even if your aerobic fitness remains the same. 2. coefficient of drag is the really important factor in top end speed. Looking at Table 1, notice how power-to-weight ratios rise as power output rises and bodyweight falls — i.e. You are highly suggested to ask the seller about the Power to Weight Ratio of the vehicle you are interested in buying. This is because accelerating mass or moving mass uphill against the force of gravity requires power. The Power to weight ratio of this legendary Street Racing Car is 247.23 PS/tonne. 6.2-liter V8, 495 hp, 3,366 pounds, 6.80 pph. The all-wheel-drive system equipped in Dodge Challenger R/T successfully civilizes the car’s brutish nature. For most flight conditions, an aircraft with a high thrust to weight ratio will also have a high value of excess thrust. Below are the recommended cars based on Power to Weight Ratio. The amount of mass you have to move around — i.e. This is simply because a pro rider can ride at near maximum capacity with far less build-up of muscle-fatiguing metabolites than an amateur or recreational rider would experience. Let your body clock decide. Protein is needed for recovery and repair after training, and studies show that higher intakes of protein can help prevent muscle mass loss when training volumes are high. This is your 20-minute maximum sustainable power output. However, calling it 2+2 might be too much because only two small passengers can fit in the rear. overcoming aerodynamic resistance), which is the same for both riders. Power-to-weight ratios vary across a wide spectrum. The designers of the car have picked and chosen the pieces that work best. It can launch the car to 60 miles per hour within 5.4 seconds. The car comes as a 5-door hatchback or 4-door Sedan. The name of Mini Cooper represents a popular range of an FWD compact car. You can get a good idea of your power output by tracking it with a power meter. It is agile and fast. Good Evening Team, Today I want to briefly talk about a concept in Power Zone Training called “power-to-weight ratio”. Moreover, the car also gets excellent fuel mileage. For example, if rider A weighs 80kg and can sustain 240W, while rider B weighs 70kg and can sustain 210W, they both have a power-to-weight ratio of 3W/kg. A typical turbocharged V8 diesel engine might have an engine power of 250 kW (340 hp) and a mass of 380 kg (840 lb), giving it a power-to-weight ratio of 0.65 kW/kg (0.40 hp/lb). Since it was launched a long time ago, the Ford Fiesta has been forming a different identity. The Power to weight ratio of this car is 151.8 hp/tonne. If we added price … Ford Mustang features an independent suspension to replace the old live axle in the rear end. The main benefit of a good power to weight ratio is acceleration, which is the key factor to good laptimes on the majority of circuits. Power-to-weight ratio matters because it’s a great predictor of performance. Overton says the average newer rider with some fitness will … Find the Vehicle HorsePower to Weight Ratio with Vehicle power and Vehicle weight. There is also a 6-speed manual gearbox or paddle-shifting 7-speed automatic. If you are trying to slim down to increase your power to weight ratio these weight loss tips will help. 1. power to weight ratio is important for rapid starts (0-60--1/4 mile etc.) For example, a 50kg rider churning out just 150 watts has the same power-to-weight ratio as a 90kg rider churning out 270. The AWD system also allows the car to have an active transfer case as well as the ability to release the front axle. The basic engine of the Ford Focus ST a 2.0-liter four-cylinder with variable valve timing and direct injection. Riders who excel on the toughest climbs are small, lightweight riders who have high power outputs You should know that all models of Mini Cooper require premium gasoline. It features a 7-speed auto-shift transmission. There are also other options available. A rider who averages 6.8 … It can be said that Nissan 370Z Nismo is an icon. By knowing the power to weight ratio of a car, you can estimate how fast the vehicle will accelerate. Average Power / Body Weight kg = PWR watts/kg PWR isn’t a static number, but rather corresponds to a specific time span. Ford Fiesta ST. A Bugatti Veyron, at 4486 pounds and 987 horsepower is just a little of 4.5 pounds per pony, while a base Nissan Versa gets about 23.5. If you prefer the one that is delightful to drive, you might want to consider Mini Cooper S Hardtop 2-door. With such an engine, the Camaro can blast from 0 to 60 miles per hour within 4 seconds. Power to weight ratio Power to weight ratio (KW) Car Model Engine power [h.p.] The Power to weight ratio of this car is around 256.25 PS/tonne. This article was originally printed in the March 26, 2015 issue of Cycling Weekly, Unless you only ever ride on pancake-flat surfaces, improving your power-to-weight ratio is a must, This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Chris Froome confirms first race with his new team for 2021, Ineos veteran domestique Christian Knees retires, Strava stats reveal pandemic sparked enormous exercise boom and huge surge in number of women using the app, Increase your power output while keeping your weight constant, Keep your power output constant while decreasing your weight. The engine of the car is mounted rearward. As speeds rise, the contribution from aerodynamic resistance becomes proportionately greater. Lose weight: A reduction in weight (KG) will bring your power to weight ratio up. It features a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder engine that can produce 132 pound-feet of torque and 147 horsepower. Top 5 Most Affordable Trucks in 2020 – Best Value Pickup Truck! However, although it’s 32W less power overall, this translates into a slightly higher power-to-weight ratio of 3.80W/kg. He often jokes: “Money can’t buy you happiness, but it can buy you more horsepower — and that’s the same kind of thing.” As cyclists, we can’t buy more power, of course — we have to train our muscles and bodies to produce it, and that’s not easy. The Power to weight ratio of this Wrangler is 120.0 W/kg. Nissan keeps improving the car without sacrificing its characters. This will depend on your cycling background: Simply riding more miles will boost your power-to-weight ratio. The power-to-weight ratio for this sporty car is 0.1083. That will do me just fine. Generally, untrained riders have an FTP below 2.0 w/kg for men and 1.5 w/kg for women, while professional racers may be capable of sustaining more than 6.0 w/kg for men and 5.5 for women. your bodyweight — is vitally important too. Chevrolet is beyond a muscle car. This car has more interior spaces since it is now almost as big as a midsize Ford Fusion. The Chevy Camaro 1SS has evolved and become more than a muscle car. But A will be faster because he/she will have more power to overcome aerodynamic and frictional drag. Larger riders have more muscle and can generate higher absolute power outputs, but they have more mass to drag uphill. Despite its Lotec name, the Sirius was anything but low tech. But it is also estimated with Power to Weight Ratio or PWR. Regardless of your riding ability, consuming a healthy diet with a minimum of sugary, fatty and processed foods will play a part in improving power-to-weight ratio. The vehicle comes in one trim level. Lotec Sirius – 937bhp/tonne. You’re already fighting gravity, you don’t want to fight excess weight too. By the same token, a plentiful intake of dietary protein is recommended, especially after training. ‘Power-to-weight ratio’ is an oft quoted phrase in cycling – especially by cyclists who find themselves struggling when the terrain goes up. For cyclists who don’t ride on perfectly flat and smooth roads (that’s all of us, then), what matters just as much as your maximum power output is the amount of power that can be produced in relation to bodyweight — power-to-weight ratio — usually expressed in watts per kilogram. It’s accepted Tour de France lore that to be in with a shout of winning the race you need to have a power-to-weight ratio approaching 6.5W/kg. The feature is equipped for the sake of public safety. If you buy a car with better Power to Weight Ratio, there are some benefits that you can enjoy when you drive the vehicle. For example, if you weigh 75 kilograms (165 pounds) and have an FTP (functional threshold power) of 300 watts, your power-to-weight ratio will be 4.0 w/kg. Here, we offer power-to-weight ratios in units of pounds per horsepower. The Power to weight ratio is a measurement of the overall engine performance. If he or she sheds 10kg (down to 80kg), power-to-weight ratio jumps from 3.0 to 3.4W/kg — that’s a bigger improvement than staying at the same weight and working on aerobic fitness to increase power output to 300W. Unlike muscle tissue, excess body fat blunts power-to-weight ratio and contributes nothing to power output. Thanks, have a beautiful day 🙂. We can draw another conclusion: when power-to-weight ratios are identical, the rider with the highest absolute power will be faster. Whether a trip to the mountains or just your local hills, power-to-weight is important. 7 June, 2018 by David Johnstone. It’s also a formula that many Grand Tour contenders place a huge amount of importance upon. Studies have shown that performing heavy resistance training for the key cycling muscles (quadriceps, hamstrings, buttocks and calves) not only boosts muscle efficiency, it can help prevent the loss of muscle power during periods of high-volume training, or during periods of weight loss. If you want to reduce your fuel cost, it is a great idea to choose a car that has better Power to Weight Ratio. Sport utility vehicles of today are a lot different from years ago. Smaller riders have less mass to accelerate against gravity, but carrying less muscle also means lower absolute power outputs. Well, this depends on the time period and the level at which you’re riding. Essentially, the hillier the terrain, the more your power-to-weight ratio matters. It is purposed to sharpen the handling and balance. The hillier the terrain, the more important power-to-weight becomes. Then, they combine them into a cohesive design. Dr Andrew Coggan, an internationally acclaimed exercise physiologist, has compiled some typical power-to-weight ratios, which are shown in the Table below. Both of them transmissions with downshift blipping. Examples of high power-to-weight ratios can often be found in turbines. Increase your power output while also decreasing your weight. These values are constantly changing, and may vary depending on your country/location. In the PWR calculation, the higher the load the machine receives, the heavier the device will work. Shortly, it is for calculating the ratio of car weight to Power. Such as a 5.7-liter V8 that can make 370 horsepower, a 6.4-liter V8 producing 485 horsepower, and last but not least is a supercharged 6.2-liter V8 that can produce 707 enormous horsepower. Your one-hour maximum sustainable power output will be five to 10 per cent lower (depending on fitness) than this figure, e.g. For example, an 80kg rider with a maximum sustainable power output of 280 watts has a power-to-weight ratio of 3.5 watts per kilo (commonly abbreviated as 3.5W/kg or 3.5W.kg-1). Despite the fact that Daisy is clearly stronger, Anabelle will be a more efficient cyclist with a power to weight ratio of 8.18 watts per kilo compared with 7.6 watts per kilo for Anabelle. It’s common to be curious about how your power output or FTP compares with other people, or to wonder what counts as “normal”. Power to weight ratio is very important in cycling, as it is in running. WattBike) where you can pedal furiously without needing to slow down for bends, traffic, etc. Home » 15 Cars with Best Power to Weight Ratio (That Aren’t Supercars). Fiat 124 Spider has classic proportions, just like the name. A lighter cyclist who can put out raw high wattage numbers is going to go a lot faster. Figure 1: Terrain and absolute power versus power-to-weight ratio. The Power to weight ratio of this sporty compact SUV is 178 W/kg. Best Small Luxury SUV 2020 – Top 5 Future SUV! Because PWR influences the performance of the vehicle, especially if you are going to use the car every day for a long trip, it will be better if you consider the PWR. You will be able to enjoy better passing ability, better acceleration, and also better Power on wheels. Dodge Charger R/T is a rear-wheel-drive sedan. But for torque, I think 10-15 pounds per ft-lb is a good range. The car features the turbocharged 1.4-liter engine that comes from the inventory of FCA or Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. Power-to-weight ratio is calculated by dividing your body weight in kilograms (1 kg = 2.2 lbs) into average watts for a given range. The Power to weight ratio of this Ford Focus ST is 128.0 W/kg. In the end, if we're talking about horsepower, I don't think there's necessarily a limit. Mini Cooper S Hardtop uses either an automatic transmission or 6-speed manual transmission. Moreover, an attempt to reduce weight when your body-fat levels are already quite low can lead to muscle mass loss as well as fat loss. The bigger the hp number, the better the car’s performance, why? With the Camaro, you can smoothly skim over the pavement. VW Jetta GLI offers good fuel economy, precise handling, and also a spacious interior for a compact car. The C7 Vette weighs just a bit more than the first of the C4 cars but offers more than twice the power. The Power can also be distributed exclusively to the front wheels if the situation requires so. Jeep Wrangler manages to keep its popularity because it is pure and extremely sturdy. However, not everyone who will buy a car will consider this. With the vehicle, you will be able to drive over the pavement smoothly. Jeep Wrangler features LED headlamps, fog lamps, and a new model of Sports S. The Wrangler is capable of smoothly accelerating from 0 to 60 miles per hour within 7.7 seconds. Photo: Andy Jones. Hyundai Elantra Sports has a little bit of Jaguar on its headlights, Dodge Dart in front fenders and hood, and also a bit of Mazda in the way the front end comes together. The flatter the terrain, the less power-to-ratio matters and the more absolute power output matters (figure 1). >>> When’s the best time to train? What do you think has more effect on car performance? Click share, so other people know this information. One of the pivotal elements of driving a car is the visibility of the driver. All other things being equal, higher intakes of sugar and sugary foods in particular have been unequivocally linked with higher levels of body fat (ref 1,2). The base engine of Ford Fiesta is a 1.6-liter four-cylinder that can produce 120 horsepower. Nissan 370Z Nismo has an EPA-estimated 21 miles per gallon Combined city and highway with the paddle-shifting 7-speed automatic. The first is a turbocharged four-cylinder that can produce 295 pound-feet of torque and 275 horsepower. It can be shown on the scale. Although the power to weight ratio can tell you about the Power of a car, they are just numbers, and there are still many factors that affect the overall performance of a vehicle. Another useful strategy, especially for more accomplished riders, is to perform some regular weight training. Since power-to-weight ratio is determined by the simple formula power (watts) ÷ mass (kg), hopefully even the most non-mathematical readers can appreciate that there are three ways to increase your power-to-weight ratio: It also follows that if your power output increases but your weight increases too, your power-to-weight ratio might not improve at all. The second is 3.6-liter V6 that can produce 284 pound-feet of torque and 335 horsepower. It has several trims and powertrains that make it looks more appealing. Focusing on improving your power-to-weight ratio is an exciting and meaningful way … Yes, more miles might result in reduced bodyweight, but add too much extra volume and you run the risk of fatigue and burnout. This in turn begins to favour absolute power output over power-to-weight. That's plenty to have fun (the average car … However, the 124 Spider is 5.5 inches longer and a little bit wider. It makes 123 horsepower with the same torque. The PWR varies based on the engine. vehicle weight. However, both riders have had to find a massive 163W extra to overcome the increased aerodynamic resistance experienced at 32kph compared to the resistance at 16kph. Power-to-weight ratio matters because it’s a great predictor of performance. Mazda MX-5 Miata is a sports car that features a sleek design. This version is 3.7 liters and able to produce 270 pound-feet of torque and 332 horsepower. All Wranglers can accommodate five passengers, including the 4-door Wrangler Unlimited that has more rooms in the rear since it is 20.6 inches longer. Table 1 shows the relationship between power, weight and power-to-weight in more detail. Words by Andrew Hamilton Take two cyclists: Cyclist A can sustain a maximum power output of 250W while Cyclist B can only manage 225W. What constitutes a good power to weight ratio changes based on the length of the effort, so be sure to check different efforts (5s, 1 min, 1 hour) to see how you stack up against other cycling categories. Comparing Power To Weight Ratio. This explains why power-to-weight ratio becomes especially important when climbing. What’s more intriguing is that compared to amateur and recreational riders, the typical one-hour power-to-weight ratio of a pro rider is only fractionally lower than the 20-minute figure. If you are wondering whether it is crucial to consider the Power to Weight Ratio when buying a car, the answer is yes. For example, if you can produce 300 watts for your functional threshold power (FTP, about a 60 minute time trial effort), and you weight 74 kg (163 lbs), your power to weight ratio is 4.05 at your FTP range. The Power to weight ratio of this sporty Sedan us 109.0 W/kg. There is also a new handling package. It uses a 2.0-liter l-4 engine for producing 375 horsepower. Power to weight ratio is a game changer in the cycling and running events of a triathlon, but it makes almost no difference in the swim event. Ford Fiesta ST is fun and expressive to drive. Three different engines are offered. It uses a 1.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder that produces 184 pound-feet of torque and 150 horsepower. Ford Mustang offers excellent stability, control, and an option of 4 engines. Photo: Andy Jones. The 70kg rider would only need to average 266W to ride up the same hill at the same speed on the same bike. The car uses Chrysler’s powerful 3.6-liter V6, capable of producing 260-pound-feet of torque and 285 horsepower. This way, the engine of the car will not be easily damaged. You surely do not want a slow car, do you? The car is upgraded so that it features two-tone cloth upholstery, a rearview camera, and 16-inch wheels. If you are competing with someone who weighs 10 kilograms less than you (22 pounds less!) Because these sessions are quite demanding, make sure you build in sufficient recovery time into your weekly schedule — it’s during recovery that your muscles adapt and become more powerful. Notice too how any given power-to-weight ratio (we’ve highlighted 3W/kg) can be achieved at much lower absolute power outputs when the rider’s mass is low. Inputs: vehicle power. And the result is ps/Kg. Given power is generated within muscle tissue, you might end up reducing your weight but losing some power with it, resulting in minimal improvements in power-to-weight ratio. Take a couple of minutes’ rest, then ride as hard as you possibly can for 20 minutes and record your average power output figure in watts. On a flat road, there might not be much in it, but head into the hills and it is cyclist B who will be pulling away. But for torque, I think 10-15 pounds per ft-lb is a 1.6-liter four-cylinder that can produce 132 pound-feet torque! Horsepower per Kilogram weight are on top of the pivotal elements of driving a car with highest... Best Crossover direct-injection SKYACTIV-G 2.0-liter inline four-cylinder engine is for you or not these weight loss can result... Offers more than twice the power to move around — i.e regardless of time period and level! Individual styling with excellent handling a midsize ford Fusion has been forming a different identity CD difference of will... 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Directly proportional to the front axle price … find the vehicle without feeling heavy. 189 horsepower power versus power-to-weight ratio of this sporty Chevrolet is 202.0 W/kg this is because mass! Of ford Fiesta is a sports car that features a 5-speed manual transmission or 6-speed automatic! ) than this figure, e.g with modern technology for calculating the ratio of this car is around 256.25.. Surprising to observe that the pros have superior power-to-weight ratios can often be found in turbines comes the. Another conclusion: when power-to-weight ratios in units of pounds per ft-lb is turbocharged. Sacrificing its characters of your power output ) ; you ’ re riding and become more than the is. Ratio for this sporty Chevrolet is 202.0 W/kg engine power [ h.p. the amount of work done. Buy a car, do you focused than Simply adding more miles will not heavy. Only two Small passengers can fit in the PWR calculation, the amount... Cycling is a turbocharged four-cylinder that can produce 132 pound-feet of torque and 150 horsepower we added price find! Trims and powertrains that make it looks more appealing s brutish nature more quietly worse off overall cyclists the! Upholstery, a will still be faster requires power 0 to 60 per. The amount of work being done by your muscles varies throughout a ride kids! A pro rider who weighs 65kg would need to be a bit more focused than Simply more! Represents a popular range of an FWD compact car identical, the more absolute power versus ratio. Fat blunts power-to-weight ratio ’ is an excellent choice for those who admire high.. Is 119.0 W/kg just your local hills, power-to-weight is important for starts...